This line is pretty interesting. Not a coincidence.

In this case the societal questions I would ask are: Will kids be safe? How much of a liability it this? How distracting with this be practically?

In the case of the spiritual questions I would ask: Is this person seeking/following Christ? Are they able to train others to do the same? Are they humble? are they bearing fruit? etc.

When I said, there are times that I would have made the same decision I was thinking about it in terms of the practical difficult and the PR difficulties in dealing with someone who is a perceived liability. So, I suppose in that sense they actually become a liability but besides that I do not see myself falling short on the category of society’s standards. Kids are not in danger, I don’t look at porn, don’t masturbate don’t blah, blah, blah.

I would like to think that in the Spiritual category I really am seeking Christ and also want to train others to do the same.

So, I would not have banned myself from directing TCL. I too, am interested to receive a response to the letter I wrote because I would like to know what the threshold of transformation is to minister in that context. But herein lies the problem. In most of my experience in the ministry there is a 90/10 ration or at least 80/20 on the emphasis of meeting “societal” (aka christian culture) standards vs “spiritual” standards. I’m not saying that someone doesn’t care about both it’s just that one is so heavily weighted than the other. This is seen by observing the gateway process. Let’s take someone who has the most radical prayer life you know. This person confesses more sin than anyone you know. They walk with and understand the ways of the Father….BUT they swear, or have long hair, or tattoos and piercing son their face, and they listen to rap, and go to AA. By the time you are done reading this list you don’t even remember the first three things on the list. This person does not stand a chance at a mega church, in most mission agencies, at many camps, and in quite a few Bible Colleges.

As far as your second question…I’ve been thinking about Jesus. I don’t claim to be like him nor do I understand him but enough of this fake humility bullshit. We can call a spade a spade here. Jesus did things in a very specific way. And that very specific way was deemed by the crowds around him as very limiting. In fact, it was limiting in the worst way. It kept Jesus from saving people because he was spending so much time relating and hanging out with the people who really needed saving. “I came to seek and save the lost” he said. In fact, not only did he do this, he did it publicly, he did it blatantly, and he did it offensively. Tax collectors, prostitutes, essentially all law-breakers. And in doing to, he became a law-breaker. I don’t like the tone of this last paragraph but it does get across how strongly I believe in these characteristics of who Jesus was. In trying to follow Jesus I do not think one should try and go around offending people (although he did seem to make quite the sport of it) or just breaking the law but we can’t write him off either. Maybe he was on to something.

Can we talk about sin without invoking the societal language? Maybe. I do know this though. In the last 3 months since I have been using societal language I feel like my ministry has expanded far greater than any time before. I feel like the opportunities for discipleship have exploded as broken people who need Jesus identify me as a broken person who needs Jesus. As I identify myself, for the first time as a broken person who needs Jesus. In one sense this label has been necessary for me to understand myself and learn what sin really does mean. In that regards, I am comforted by Jesus who chose to spend so much of his time with the same people who wore society’s labels.

If I had the last 6 months to live over again, I would do it the same. Will I say that in 10 years? maybe.

long winded.

thanks for the valuable feedback jp and other.

bnc

I’m very encouraged by how this whole discussion has helped me and others talk about the Fall and sin in a much deeper way. But can I focus for a minute on the cons of this discussion (which this post is exploring).

I’m pondering how he would (if he ever will) respond to your second letter about when you will be free to work with youth at LBC and here’s where I feel the “addiction” label causes long-term problems. Perhaps the first step toward being allowed back into ministry with youth would be a blog post entitled “I’m Ben and I’m NOT a sexaholic” but would you ever post such a thing (don’t 12 step programs tell you that you’re always a sexaholic)?

The problem here is categorizing sin.

For example, is the struggle of someone who got drunk at a party once when he was 17 the same as the struggle of someone with 3 DUI’s last month. Should they both be banned from ever driving a school bus? Spiritually these categories aren’t that important. Sin is sin and both people have to deal with the fall in their lives. But society has an obligation to protect itself by limiting the effect the Fall in the second man with DUI’s is having on society by revoking his driver’s license and not allowing him to drive children for a living. We need to be able to categorize certain sins as more dangerous to society than others. This is not a spiritual category but a societal one (Romans 13:1-7).

You seem to want to mix these categories up to help Christians understand that we are equally fallen. I agree we are equally fallen but putting a societal label (sexaholic) on yourself to make a spiritual point carries with it the long-term consequences of the societal protections that this category was designed for. This was why so few people ever wanted to actually admit that they were alcoholics. They weren’t just saying “I’m a sinner” they were also saying “I’m a sinner that society needs to take specific actions to protect itself against.” It’s because of the protections leveled against the alcoholic that required a place of anonymity so he would be willing to admit his addiction.

So where does this end? You need to answer the question you are asking the director to answer. You said you might have banned yourself from directing TCL if you were him but is that really true? Then why would you apply at all? What would you have REALLY written if you got a request like that? How would you have responded to the second question about when the ban should be lifted?

I really want to know.

And my second question is this – if the consequences of 1) receiving the label “sexaholic” and 2) declaring it publicly on your blog leads to a lifelong restriction on discipling youth will it have been worth doing both? Can we talk about sin just as effectively without invoking the societal language?

I have some very mixed feelings about this whole ordeal. Like Charles, I can see the organizational/liability side of this and I could see myself making a similar decision in that position. I would also say that there is a strong part of me that resonates with Kimmie and Anne’s sentiments. I wonder what it looks like to live the NT life of humility and “rejoicing in our weakness” so that Christ may be glorified. I am constantly struggling with is the idea of how the standards for leadership and reputation within the church are so similar to every other context.
I will say this. When I was deciding whether to go to SA meeting, share about it with other and write about it on my blog I knew that I had 2 very distinct options.
The first was to tell no one, or a very limited “inner circle”
The second was to let it all hang loose. I knew with this option that there were endless assumptions tat would be made and that it would would limit my options incredibly in certain circles.
But then I started to think about that the assumptions that are made in the first option. This context I am very familiar with. Christians who say “no one’s perfect” but by all appearances, are. I felt like it boiled down to one of two option. I could be a misunderstood saint or a misunderstood sinner. I chose the latter because I thought that it would better facilitate the healing of myself and the others around me. I have gone back and forth on the decision but if I had to do it over again I would not change it.

Shellie, Thanks for your kind encouragement. You are always welcome to read and post.

Thanks to all who have engaged in this very confusing issue.

All this makes me think, every single male counselor at every camp is probably a sex addict or thinks they are or would qualify to be one by some standards. Who knows what evil lurks in the hearts of men??

I just wanted to say I think you’re very brave to be so honest. I wish there were more people like you in this world. It’s so frustrating to me how so many struggle with issues, yet walk around in such falsehood. Sadly this seems to be prevalent in the church. Lots of pointing fingers and judgement but very little transparency and truth…real truth! Truth that know one knows because it comes from deep within. Well, thank you for your truth, it’s refreshing!

You see you could of hid this or lied. But you chose to be real, honest and open. This should mean something. Yes, it could be could be scary to consider hiring someone with a “problem” but I think it’s way worse to hire someone who may be in deneyal about it, hide it or lie.

Second, I think it’s great you’re actively taking steps to fix this and be acountable to others. Many don’t even move on to this step. This should count for something!

The only difference between you and others with unspoken “problems” is they haven’t had the guts to speak out. I believe God will truely bless you for this. A man of integrity is a rare thing.

As I’m sure you’ve heard Matt is going through his share of addictions and 12 step programs. I can’t offer much advise other than being honest and calling like it is, seems to be the toughest part. So good for you, you’re on the right road! I also know it’s a very fitted fix for addiction. In other words, what works for others doesn’t allways work for you. Or lets face it all addictions would be fixed with one right way! Do what’s best for you and how you feel God is telling you to do it. It’s been frustrating for both of us with all the “know it all” people out there.

I guess what I’m trying to say is I’m proud of you for taking a stand, being honest, doing what is right and trying to serve God. God will use you and all your talents. Give my love to Kami. I still picture her as little, from when Kari and I would hang out in the good old days!

Much love,
Shellie

I think being open with your struggles can be a very powerful tool for witnessing and encouragement of those around you. However, airing all of your dirty laundry can also be a hindrance to your ministry as well.

If memory serves, the program doesn’t require you to shout to the world what our issues are. However, it does allow you to be able to admit to those around you that you meet with that you do have struggles that you can relate to each other about.

So I think you may in the future want to temper your zealousness about your current journey of self-discovery for this very reason. If talking with people about this can be edifying on micro level with individuals. But on a macro level you may want to remain more anonymous so that you don’t give people a reason to pre-judge you and thus be turned off to the possibility of you witnessing to them.

Something to think about.

At the same time, from what little I know of you, I think you sold yourself short in that first email! You have so much to offer the kids at LBC! It’s okay to mention that too.