The verse you linked is so full of mysterious truth that I feel like I could study it for weeks and learn more and more from it everyday. That is what I would like to do but is probably not what I will actually do. If I force myself to go through with things will my heart follow too? I am always amazed by the way I underestimate the power of God’s word.

I need to be reminded of Ezekiel’s vision daily so that it drives me to dependence on Jesus and his work, not myself.

Thanks for your heart-felt message, Ben.

Sitting in NA I started to “identify” with the hard drug users who robbed stores, severely neglected their family members, etc.

In retrospect this wasn’t good at all for me, personally, and I don’t buy the whole 12-step ideology/theology that “If you have this disease, you are simply somewhere on a continuum, and without 12-step you would have ended up where THEY [the people who are "progressed" far into the "disease" in question] are, so don’t look down on them.”

I guess my point was less about being on a continuum that will lead to a certain degree of external symptoms but more being able to identify that we are in fact of the exact same mindset and have the exact same degree of powerlessness or lack of control…we just show it in different ways. I’m not sure what your religion/god/theology background but these beliefs are 100% based upon mine and I wouldn’t expect anyone with a different worldview to understand or agree at all.

I do wholeheartedly agree that any program or mentality that makes causality absolve one of responsibility is tragic for all involved because in the end it will not help the “victim” arrive at the true solution.

Step 4 is one of the hardest and best.

Sitting in NA I started to “identify” with the hard drug users who robbed stores, severely neglected their family members, etc.

In retrospect this wasn’t good at all for me, personally, and I don’t buy the whole 12-step ideology/theology that “If you have this disease, you are simply somewhere on a continuum, and without 12-step you would have ended up where THEY [the people who are "progressed" far into the "disease" in question] are, so don’t look down on them.”

Also, the whole “you try to control your life! that’s so dysfunctional” thing doesn’t make a whole lot of rational sense to me, either. Taken to an extreme, that rationale has gotten a lot of people in trouble in 12-step – check http://www.morerevealed.com in the section called Horror Stories for some compelling, detailed, and terrible anecdotes about same.

Everyone, even the most hardcore Christian or passive 12-stepper or whoever, SHOULD feel remorse when they experience trauma or loss that is outside of their control. 12-step tends to advocate basking in your own lack of powerlessness and control to the extent that, in my experience, one is robbed of an essential stage of grief or recovery from trauma. Further, the remorse and negative feelings you feel when you experience an event outside of your control CAN and SHOULD lead to personal growth rather than the simplistic, obvious revelation that “There are some things we can’t control.”

It’s so much easier for us to look at other’s shortcomings than it is for us to be introspective. Like often times in a divorce, you typically hear from someone how awful the other person was or why the other person caused all the problems or drove them to drink. If people could be more introspective and be willing to admit where they were at fault, people would probably be able to work things thru.

There’s a great quote in I think the Ragamuffin Gospel regarding that. It was from someone referring to people who call AIDS God’s judgment on gays. He essentially says that it’s lucky for those people that God hasn’t made a deadly disease yet for the self righteousness, judgment and slander.