Comments on: Reading this will make you uncomfortable…

By: Julian

Julian — Thu, 14 Jan 2010 14:31:58 +0000

I spend a bit of time wondering what sin is exactly. I think we misunderstand it sometimes. We wipe the naughty chololate stains from our mouth with the tissue of grace, grinning all the while.

Yet sin is not just doing “naughty” things and enjoying it. It is pride, it is shaking your fist in the face of God and denying you need His help to overcome your human condition.

I grew up thinking I had to avoid all sin, and not do anything on the long list of things that were bad. I have now come to see it as more of a heart condition. Trying endlessly to avoid those things on the “list” usually just ends up in self-righteousness or false guilt.

Hmmm… I don’t have the answers.

By: Kentucky What?

Kentucky What? — Wed, 29 Oct 2008 15:45:33 +0000

So, my push back to some of our conversation about this is what it really means to “sin AGAINST your brother.” Though, in principle I believe that every time we do something that is not by faith it is sin (Romans 14:23) and that anytime we don’t do something that we know we should it is sin (James 2 or 3? or something), I don’t know what I truly believe about whether these are all “against” our brothers. It seems that you’re proposing that Matt 18 shouldn’t be reserved for certain situations. I do, again in principle, believe that every time we sin it does in some weird way that I don’t really understand fully affect the church that we call our body. However, I struggle to believe deeply that my mistreatment of a student of mine during the school day directly affects the body I fellowship with. My problem is that, similarly to you probably, I would typically default to an extreme form of openness and nakedness in our lives so as to stay as far away from sin as possible. So, I really want to believe that Matt 18 is claiming that we should approach each other in every recognized sinful situation, but I just don’t know one way or the other. Regardless, I will say that I think we would all be better off in the end speaking directly into our brothers’ and sisters’ lives regularly as opposed to waiting for the sin to completely and practically ruin someone’s life.

So, after all this stream of consciousness . . . God wants us to come into the light. Our fallen nature desires deeply to stay in the dark. We must as disciples of Christ drag our family members kicking and screaming, if necessary, into the light as He was in the light. This I believe requires us to be consistent though non-formulaic in our practice of Matt 18.

By: Stephanie

Stephanie — Mon, 08 Sep 2008 07:44:45 +0000

I like that you say that the formula is only as powerful as the force behind it. But when the force behind it is love, i think it probably ceases to be a formula at all. So that’s what makes me uncomfortable about applying a formula to it at all. I just don’t think God/love operates out of formulas.

By: teenshelter

teenshelter — Sun, 07 Sep 2008 05:51:07 +0000

Stephanie, Thanks for your response. I’ll bet you’re not the only one who was uncomfortable in reading a “formula” of this nature. In regards to your response these 2 thoughts came into my head:
1. It is not MY formula or MY promise. I did draw some conclusions on my own which are totally up for debate.
2. Beyond this formula there is a very, very deep essence. And that is love. I think the formula is exactly that…a formula or a methodology. But it is only as effective or powerful as the force behind it and without it, it is nothing.

By: Stephanie

Stephanie — Sun, 07 Sep 2008 04:54:30 +0000

These formulas and the promise of a method to fix something spiritual make me nervous. That’s what makes me uncomfortable about this post.

By: teenshelter

teenshelter — Wed, 03 Sep 2008 06:44:46 +0000

Caesar, thanks for your response. I was wondering…Have you ever seen this? Seems like you’ve been at churches all over. I was wondering if this is the chicken or egg first question. If you have the correct structure will this happen or if Christians did this will the structure take care of itself? I can picture this in my head but for the life of me I have not seen it or talked to anyone who has. Would love to hear some testimony.

By: Caesar

Caesar — Tue, 02 Sep 2008 20:57:38 +0000

Ben, you are not off of your rocker…this is the tough stuff of actually being and becoming the beautiful gospel community that Jesus died for. So tough, but so loving. I loved your analogy of a guy being rescued and then the rescuers feeling the need to remind him that they love him… Crazy! But we are so locked up and fearful of man and wrapped around the spokes of human approval that we feel this way. Wow. Thanks for the dialog…